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Page 1 of 8 Six UK Championship show judges were asked these questions for inclusion into the New Zealand Kennel Clubs Flat Coated Retriever Breed Supplement, here are the questions and answers that have been kindly reproduced thanks to the New Zealand Kennel Club. The chosen judges were Jenny Bird (JB) Becky Johnson (BJ) Brenda Phillips (BP) Valerie Foss (VF) Val Jones (VJ) and Maureen Scott (MS). 1. You have been involved with Flatcoats for over 20 years and are a Championship Show judge. How do you think the dogs have changed in that period? JB 1. When I started showing my Flatcoat in 1980 the average entry at a Championship Show was about 90 dogs. Now it is usually nearer 200. I think overall the dogs have got bigger and we have lost type and soundness. We had more quality in depth in the 1980’s and early 90’s but I feel we have lost that today. It can be difficult to find five dogs in a class of 20 plus that fulfil my interpretation of the breed standard. BJ 1. Although I have not awarded CCs for anywhere near that length of time I have been involved with the breed since birth and there is no doubt that the dogs have changed. Heads are generally a lot better – gone are some of the heavy two piece Labrador head with jowls that you used to see. However, fronts today are not good. There are a few exceptions but in the main a dog with the correct layback of shoulder and return of upper arm is rare. The dogs are almost settery in their appearance – narrow in body with fine silky coats. This is not what is required in the standard. They are also taller. BP 1. I have been in the breed since 1967, judging since the mid seventies. The breed has developed in many different way depending where fashion has taken it. The breed changed rapidly especially when the number of Gamekeeper owner/ breeder/ judges declined especially in the eighties. At all times especially as a breeder I personally consider the breed to be a difficult breed on to keep to the “breed standard”. The breed on a whole does not have many “pre-potent stud dogs” in a way there are more “pre-potent bitches”. Post war I believe the decade from the mid seventies to the end of the eighties was the time of optimum quality relating to breed type. VF 1. I first judged Flat Coats with tickets in 1974 I have judged them pretty consistently since then including Crufts and top shows all over Europe. The top class dogs have not changed much they conform very much to the standard, of course in my country we have had over use of certain sires (Popular Sire Syndrome). VJ 1. During the last 20 years the dogs have changed in body proportions, i.e. instead of having the long, deep ribcage with a short loin the proportions have become reversed, you now see dogs with short ribcages and long in loin, I cannot remember seeing those 20 years ago. MS 1. Having been involved in the breed since the early Seventies ,I have seen a vast change in the breed .Registrations have risen, as have show entries ,but sadly I feel today the quality has deteriorated slightly .The height of the Flatcoat has increased and those dogs of the preferred height are classed as small .We are losing the lovely one piece moulded head ,with the almond shaped eye and intelligent expression ,eye colour is also getting light .We are seeing more broad skulls, with round light eyes ,upright shoulders and straight upper arms, and sadly lacking is the well defined brisket.As one would expect from bad construction ,movement in general is poor . my personel opinion, I would say the eighties and early nineties saw some outstanding dogs and bitches ,one was spoilt for choice when looking for a Stud Dog compared to today .One of the most predominant Stud Dogs was Ch Ir Ch Shargleam Blackcap born in June 1977, the most successful Flatcoat of his era ,his pinnacle was winning Best in Show at Crufts 1980 .He was a very predominant sire ,as were several of his Sons and Grandsons ,a very important factor in a stud dog .
2 Do you think some changes are to the detriment of the breed and why .? JB The changes I have mentioned are to the detriment of the breed. “A medium size workmanlike dog”. That should always be remembered. A Flatcoat should not be glamorous. Flatcoat construction is unique in the Retriever breeds calling as it does for the dog to be slightly longer than it is tall. But that length must come from the ribs and not the loin and we now have a number that are long in the loin. Type within the breed is very mixed. Heads vary and the truly classical head is rare today. General construction and soundness does concern me. They must have the correct layback of shoulder and length of upper arm to be able to stride out and moderately angulated, well muscled quarters to drive them along. At the moment movement in general is not good. BJ Certainly some are. The fact that the heads have improved is wonderful, however on the construction side we really do have a problem. The problem is also acerbated in that dogs with the same faults are bred to each other thus insuring the problem goes on for another generation. Certainly looking around the rings today there are a great many dogs in the ring which are just not show quality. This is not doing the breed’s reputation any good at all. BP In the eighties the UK K/C modernized and standardized all the “breed standards, the Flatcoats certainly lost very important breeding & judging pointers, they are just a few words but as the example of the original standard they say so much. One of the universal problems in the Flatcoat today is “open coupling” this displays itself in overlong dogs with weak backs and poor toplines or the other phenomena short barrel chest and overlong loins, these are the hardest to see from the ringside as these dogs can look balanced. Sadly both these structural faults are been forgiven by judges in the ring today. The old standard ask for: “Forequarters - The chest should be deep and fairly broad, with a well defined brisket , on which the elbows should work cleanly and evenly. The legs are of the greatest importance, the forelegs, should be perfectly straight, with bone of good quality carried right down to the feet, and with the dog is in full coat the legs should be well feathered.Body- The fore ribs should be fairly flat, showing a gradual spring and well arched in the centre of the body, but rather lighter towards the quarters. Open couplings are to be ruthlessly condemned. The back should be short, square and well ribbed up.Hindquarters- Should be muscular. The stifle should not be too straight or too bent, and the dog neither be cow-hocked nor move too widely behind; in fact ,he must stand and move true on legs and feet all round. The legs should be well feathered. ”VF We must remember that the Flat Coat is a medium sized dog and that open coupling are highly undesirable. VJ The above is of obvious detriment to the breed, as the ribcage houses the vital organs, lungs and heart in which they need room to work efficiently, if you shorten the ribcage to have enough room for these organs the ribcage will have to become wider and thus the Flatcoated Retriever will lose its racy appearance and become compact and type will become lost MS I do feel some of the changes are detrimental to the breed ,particularly the increase in litter registrations and show entries,for example in 1977 the Crufts entry was 99 compared to 440 in 2007. Despite large entries, it is sad to say that sometimes, the quality is just not what I am looking for .I do wish breeders would put more thought into their breeding programmes and try and correct the faults their bitch has instead of doubling up on the same faults .The same could be said for Stud owners. They need to look at their dog and ask themselves is he of good enough quality to be used at Stud .
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